Bobby McGee is a name synonymous with running and more specifically running coaching. Originally from South Africa but now based in the endurance sport mecca of Boulder, Bobby kindly agreed to be interviewed on all things running, including the increasingly popular yet often misunderstood Run-Walk method.
Athlete Natural: Bobby, let’s start from the beginning. You studied at the University of Stellenbosch, the breeding ground of many a great athlete. How did you get into coaching runners? Who were the greatest influences on your early coaching career?
Bobby McGee: I
always thought I would coach because I suspected - even though I never trained
that hard in retrospect - that I would never be that good an athlete. My father
asked what my best subject at school was and I said sport! In those days there
was no option of “going pro”; just teaching and coaching was part of that profession.
By 1986, I had been coaching school kids in cross-country and track and had
tons of questions and wanted answers. I went back to Stellenbosch University to
study coaching specifically.
My mentors
were two individuals, the first being Charles Faasen, who was Elana Meyer’s high school
coach. He gave me so much encouragement, taught and pushed me.
My other
great mentor was Wium Mostert – “Oom Mossie” to us. He was the official Stellenbosch
coach and was brilliant at everything: hurdles, distances, javelin, hammer,
discus; you name it. He also guided me without any requirement other than to
make me as good a coach as I could be.
These two
guys were both so much more about the person, rather than the athlete – truly
holistic educationalists who prepared people for life - and just the greatest
teachers a budding coach could ever have.
AN: The early
1990s were an interesting and turbulent time in South Africa. With our
re-admission into the international sporting arena, the Olympic dream became a
reality for many SA sports people. Talk about your experiences as marathon
coach for 1992 SA Olympic marathon team and could you give an insight into the
legend that is Josia Thungwane?
BM: That 1992 marathon team was great but we were all so naïve! I could not even get into the village. No need to name names, but SARRA appointed me the marathon coach, while the national governing body also had a coach. Jan Tau, Zithulele Sinque and Abel Mokibe deconditioned in that camp – one of the guys was over 5kg heavier on race day!
BM: That 1992 marathon team was great but we were all so naïve! I could not even get into the village. No need to name names, but SARRA appointed me the marathon coach, while the national governing body also had a coach. Jan Tau, Zithulele Sinque and Abel Mokibe deconditioned in that camp – one of the guys was over 5kg heavier on race day!
Understandably they had little confidence and were totally overwhelmed; I guess
I was too! It was challenging, especially with training and specific preparation
for a very hilly ending and the extreme heat. Colleen
De Reuck did best
because she had access to me and full support.
Josia Thugwane was his
own man; tough, stubborn and present. He focused on what he needed, like those
extra hikes every Sunday in Albuquerque, often up to six hours. Jaques Malan
did great work keeping him calm and meeting his needs. He trained like all the
greats, meaning that he kept it simple. Hills were up slag heaps, fartlek
(40km) was between telephone poles along the Koornfontein roads. Two days
before the Atlanta Olympic marathon, I asked the guys what their thoughts were.
Lawrence
Peu was grey faced, freaked out and tense. Gert Thys was all about who
was in the race and what they’d done – Dionicio Ceron was world #1 and had won London twice and was
a solid 2:08 guy. But Josia just said he would run up front with whoever was
with him and how prophetic that was; the Kenyan and South Korean were not
really on anybody’s radar at that point and Josia most certainly wasn’t. Xolile Yawa had a pelvic
stress fracture and was the most experienced guy in that team until he was
sidelined; he had run the 10000m heats in Barcelona.
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| Josia Thungwane |
AN: Describe some of the great South African athletes of the 1980s/1990s that you were involved in coaching. What attributes set them apart from their competition?
BM: I seem to be most involved with whom I’m currently working with. Colleen was amazing nd still is. She kept it simple, trained hard, raced hard, but just didn’t rate herself when she was at her best. I should have brought her stride rate up; she would have run 2:22/23 for sure. I just did not know enough at the time.
Johan Landsman
was the physiological behemoth – an unbelievable “Kenyan-esque” talent – who ran
2:48 floating for 1200m one evening. He just started too late but was a clear
sub 3:30 candidate; he just ran out of time and mentally needed three more
years. Johan moved like Morceli and ran a
1:45 800m as barely a sub-50sec 400m athlete. He had a “miler’s mentality”, but
3000m and 5000m would have suited him best. He was in sub 7:40, 13:15 shape
often with his 1500m training.
The road boys
were unbelievable. Meshack Mogotsi was such an unbelievable 15km runner. Loved
working with Mattthews
“Loop-en-Val” Motshwarateu in those
later years - he was a lovely, lovely man. Meck Motulli could have been a
superstar, but so many things to overcome internally & externally.
Xolile Yawa had proved himself beyond doubt and I had hoped that he would have had a second lease on life after 1992, but it wasn’t to be; he came to the marathon too late. Simon Morolong – incredible, came to me as a 29:20 altitude 10km guy and won the Peachtree in 28min flat! All of them I think could have been better – we never developed the “can do” attitude of the other Africans. Too much isolation, too much bitterness, too little experience and there were not many “young ones” either to transition. Hezekiel Sepeng was a “gate-opener” if ever we had one.
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| Xolile Yawa |
Xolile Yawa had proved himself beyond doubt and I had hoped that he would have had a second lease on life after 1992, but it wasn’t to be; he came to the marathon too late. Simon Morolong – incredible, came to me as a 29:20 altitude 10km guy and won the Peachtree in 28min flat! All of them I think could have been better – we never developed the “can do” attitude of the other Africans. Too much isolation, too much bitterness, too little experience and there were not many “young ones” either to transition. Hezekiel Sepeng was a “gate-opener” if ever we had one.
AN: I
understand you’ve spent countless hours following your athletes on a mountain
bike?
BM: Initially
with the African runners yes - they do their own thing - but before the Games
in those days I would set the schedule and run the sessions. The long runs were
about seconding, carrying water etc. But don’t do that much anymore. There is
still a lot of that sort of thing in Boulder though, with the Japanese,
Kenyans, Romanians and local elites.
AN: You are
currently coaching several triathletes. What are the challenges facing a coach
intent on improving the running ability of a multi-sport athlete?
BM: I am more
of a run consultant than a coach, working with the high performance athletes in
camps and upon request for the USA, Australian and Canadian federations as well
as the ITU. I assess mechanics, teach drills, run sessions and with the juniors
help them develop their run approach. I also assess mental skills and run
sessions on the development of these skills.
Whether they
are an age-grouper or pro, a certain percentage of triathletes lose access to
their neuromuscular patterning when they get off the bike, especially if they
are strength runners. These athletes need a skills-based approach with drills
pre-running and post swim-and-bike to try to re-enforce their running patterns.
Especially the ones that have great motors but no running background; they need
to build into being runners as opposed to just “doing” running. This is hard
for them because of their numbers/speed/training mindset, so fartlek trail
running without a Garmin is foreign and even confronting for them.
AN: You are
known for your innovative training methods, with the Run-Walk (RW) protocol being
at the forefront. How did you come to embrace the RW method and what were your
earliest experiences implementing this protocol? Have you had difficulty in
convincing athletes into adopting this method?
BM: Sure I
have; ego is a terrible thing! Consider the following Q&A:
“What was
your marathon time off the bike in Ironman?”
Answer:
“5:30, but I ran the whole way…”
Question: “Would
you like to go 4:30 & not run the whole way?”
No brainer
right? Anyway, age-group performers have totally embraced RW; it works on a
myriad of levels for multiple reasons. Most triathletes and runners cannot do
the training required to be able to really race an Ironman or even and open
marathon. They do not have the time, they really don’t have the soma type,
(read: they’re too big) and they have to get those long runs in but run too
infrequently in the week. The long run therefore demands too much from them and
they detrain while they trying to recover.
The RW method
is nothing other than interval training for weekend warriors; they can train more
with quicker recovery and race faster. This was originally Jeff Galloway’s idea and “average”
runners can now develop some consistency and feel like the gifted runner after the
long stuff.
AN: Could you
outline how exactly the RW method should be performed as well its benefits?
What or who are your most valued RW success stories?
BM: There are
no strict rules: aid stations, 10min run/1min walk – whatever works. I
emphasize experimentation meaning that beginners go 1min run/1min walk, while I
have my elites go 9min run/1min walk. This improves pacing and you can catch
vast numbers in the last third of races as pacing and/or fitness errors begin
to show.
Mentally,
it’s much easier too. I have runners go out on a regular 60-90min run and
experiment; do they have less cardiac drift or does the HR progression in the
heat slow, despite maintaining the same pace? Are they absorbing
fluids/nutrients better and is their RPE lower?
I was able to
significantly impact Barb
Lindquist’s run volume increase this way and Gordo
Byrn twice ran 1hr15 half-marathon off the bike in a 70.3 triathlon with RW
methodology. One essential is to maintain rhythm while walking – it’s not a
stroll but at least 8-9min/km! Recover, refuel, prepare for the next section –
these are the rules of the walk section.
AN: Slowtwitch
recently interviewed South African triathlete Mari
Rabie, who began working with you whilst coming back from chronic injury.
One thing that stood out in her interview was her sticking exclusively to soft running
surfaces. Could you give some insight into how runners of all levels could
benefit from staying away from the asphalt and the positive effects of the more
forgiving running surfaces out there?
BM: It is one
of the Kenyan commandments. Here in the USA, the frozen concrete and asphalt is
so much harder. Well over 70% of collegiate athletes are anemic, probably due
in part to foot strike hemolysis. Overuse injuries are also caused by a surface
that is too uniform. Strength runners “get away with it” on these surfaces, but
all us older runners can attest to a preference for trails – you just don’t
have the same discomfort after training. I even suggest long hikes over the
long run every weekend for those in trail poor environments. Asphalt and
concrete place such a premium on mechanics – especially higher stride rates and
therefore the runners that are less-efficient need the dirt surfaces most!
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| Stay off the tar and cement for athletic longevity. |
AN: The
current “minimalist-running“ craze has resulted in endless debate. What are
your thoughts on the current trend towards barefoot running?
BM: Do you
have time for a six day course? There are a zillion plusses and minuses; it is
like gun control - is it the gun or the person? Clearly it requires some really
careful thinking to transition to more minimalist footwear. If I have to
simplify I would say wear the least amount of shoe you can get away with while
being aware that skill/pace is a strong determinant of what you should wear.
Performance is the issue, not what’s the current fad. In endurance running,
accumulation of volume and quality are determinants of success, so wear what
gets you that.
Highly
skilled runners can go minimalist - after that address what your specific needs
are - but don’t intellectualize it too much. What feels right and works in the
long term - not just what’s great in the store. Use the treadmill, go outside
if the store will let you; buy shoes when you’re tired and had a run earlier
that day. With the younger athletes I have them get an affordable shoe and
replace it often.
AN: With you
having studied in Stellenbosch and now being based in Boulder, you certainly
have experienced two of the world’s “endurance sports capitals.” How would you compare the two towns?
BM: Lots of
similarities. Wrote an article for Runner’s
World SA about it and they published the article with a picture of Estes
Park, which is a town in the mountains 70km away! Boulder has many more trails
and is at high altitude; much colder in the winter with access to very high
mountains within 30 minutes. It is now much safer for runners and triathletes
both from a crime and traffic perspective but a very expensive town. I used to
know Stellenbosch better than Boulder, but now it is way the other way around.
The “who’s who” of long course triathlon now spends the summers here, although
there is a shortage of 50m swimming pools. Lots of professional people provide
support for endurance athletes: physiotherapists, (Mark
Plaatjes is the best there is), massage therapists and orthopedic specialists.
The Boulder Running Company
is the number one shoe store in country and is owned by two South African
running legends; Mark Plaatjes and Johnny
Halberstadt.
December to
February is really cold whilst November and February are the months when we get
snow. It’s a dry cold, so bundling up and getting out for running is easy,
albeit slippery at times, but cycling is
a different story. Overall, now, I’d say it’s better for my game (endurance
coaching) than Stellenbosch. From what I have seen & I know this is going
to sound sacrilegious, but Potchefstroom
is a better bet now!
AN: What are
you up to athletically these days? Do still run extensively?
BM: You know
I never did run that extensively. I did my marathons off 30km per week and the
Durban Ultra triathlon off six weeks of 30km running, 3km swimming & 180km
riding! I’ve always struggled with volume; my “old man” sub-17min 5km and 3hr08
marathon attest to that. I’m a crock since I ruptured a hamstring in 2000, but
I get out most days and alternate between running and walking. I recently did a
31:30 5km walking race and only came 2nd in my age group.
